Compassionate Care Human Services Public Hearing Transcript

PRESIDING CHAIRMEN: Senator Harris

Representative Villano

COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT:

SENATORS: Coleman, Kissel

REPRESENTATIVES: Abercrombie, Gibbons, Adinolfi, Bartlett, Burns, Butler, Caron, Chapin, Jarmoc, Morris, Orange, Schofield, Thompson, Truglia, Walker

REPRESENTATIVE VILLANO: By our Committee rules, I am required to open a meeting within ten minutes of the designated hour. It is now ten after and this public hearing is open.

However, we seem to be lacking some Committee Members, but nevertheless, I think we will get started because we have a full agenda and many speakers here.

I warn some of you though that the Capitol Police might be in later to indicate that some of you have to go to an overflow room. It might require no standing be in effect, but we will be guided by what the Capitol Police say. So I think we will get started.

My Co-Chair Senator Harris will be here very shortly. My key members are here so we can do business without them. Under our rules, we hear first from people who have signed up as legislators or agency people or other public officials.

We ask all speakers in the interest of those who come behind you to be brief. We have your prepared statement, and we ask that you summarize and keep your comments as brief as possible because after you are finished, you're going to get questions or comments from Committee Members.

After we are through with the public officials, we turn to the public and will hear everyone there, in turn, as well. One other announcement I have to make is that turn off all cell phones during the hearing, or if you need to use it, please step outside.

I will turn to the agenda now of speakers and call, our first speaker will be Nancy Wyman, our State Controller.

COMPTROLLER NANCY WYMAN: Thank you, Representative Villano. Good morning to the distinguished Members of the Human Services Committee.

For the record, I am State Comptroller Nancy Wyman. I appreciate the opportunity to testify in support of Raised Senate Bill 1343, AN ACT CONCERNING COMPASSIONATE CARE FOR VICTIMS OF SEXUAL ASSAULT.

Senate Bill 1343 states that any healthcare facility that is a participating provider of services under any of the state's medical assistance programs will be required to provide information on emergency contraception, as well as honor all requests from sexual assault victims for the dispensing of such medication.

Sexual assault victims need prompt medical attention. I believe it is vital, and I repeat vital, vitally important that all legal prescriptions are available when a patient needs them.

Emergency contraception is intended to prevent a pregnancy. The chance of a pregnancy resulting from a sexual assault can be greatly reduced by Plan B if administered to a victim within the first 24 hours following the assault.

Female victims of sexual assault should be treated with compassion during a time of trauma and pain. Plan B is available over the counter to adults.

But we should ensure that every woman or girl knows that she can avoid the trauma of a pregnancy resulting from sexual assault and that it will be provided upon request.

My office, with the assistance of Attorney General Blumenthal, worked with Wal-Mart to make sure that Plan B would be available to women in Connecticut when it was indicated that they did not intend on stocking Plan B emergency contraception.

I felt strongly that Wal-Mart, as a participant in the state's insurance network, could not selectively choose which drugs to provide.

I believe that if the arbitrary selection of what drugs to be honored continued, the state would have no choice but to explore options to have Wal-Mart removed from the state network.

I am pleased that Wal-Mart recognized their responsibilities and worked with our office on an acceptable contingency plan even in instances of conscientious objection by an employed pharmacist. A workable solution can and needs to be found.

Our first priority, as elected officials, should always be to ensure that its participating providers make available necessary and appropriate treatment and services to all of our residents.

I want to close by saying a girl or a woman, who is raped, is made a victim by someone who decided what they wanted to do with her body. Let's not make her a victim.

Allow her to choose what she needs by telling her what is available to her and providing it if she requests it. Let's not keep her victim. Let's try to make her a survivor. Thank you very, very much for your time, and I hope that you will vote this bill out.

REP. VILLANO: Are there any comments or questions from Committee Members? Representative Thompson.

REP. THOMPSON: Good afternoon, Ma'am.

COMPTROLLER NANCY WYMAN: Good afternoon.

REP. THOMPSON: This issue came up a year ago, I believe, and at the time the debate about it concerned the Catholic hospitals in the state and their refusal to provide the pill.

Are you aware of any Catholic hospital that has actually denied the medication to any rape victim?

COMPTROLLER NANCY WYMAN: I gather that some of the Catholic hospitals now have developed a test to put this victim through again to see if the victim at the time she didn't choose to be raped, was raped, was ovulating. And then, if she is ovulating, as I understand, they do not give them the pill.

REP. THOMPSON: That's a test, but are you aware of anyone who was denied the pill on that basis?

COMPTROLLER NANCY WYMAN: What I understand through the, and I was not there, and I don't know. I do not have the names of the people who have gone in there. What I do understand from sexual assault counselors, we just heard at a press conference that they do know.

And I am sure they will be testifying in front of you they do know of people that have been refused the pill and treatment and the information that the victims need to make that choice.

REP. THOMPSON: Well, as a result of the controversy last year, two things happened to me. One is that in a political debate during the campaign, someone made the same claim you made.

And I responded that I think the Archdiocese in this case had made an error, and I did not agree with it. And, I requested further information as to other legislators.

The four Catholic hospitals did do a survey, and I'll give you the results of that, okay? The survey summary, the four hospitals. I won't repeat their names, but the survey was back to January 1, 2006 and went to July, September, October and again July.

The number of rape victims treated in the emergency room total victims 73, walk-ins 46, arrival by ambulance 27. How many were denied Plan B on pregnancy ovulation testing protocol? Zero. No one was denied the pill. How many were provided Plan B based on protocol? Total 26.

How many did not receive Plan B due to other factors, that is, they refused treatment on birth control, post-menopausal, five days post assault, tubal ligation, sodomized, no evidence of rape, penetration with an object, youthful age of victim and so on, it was 47.

How many were assigned by rape crisis counselors from outside agencies at the hospital? The patient must agree to such service. Total 24. Additional patients were provided follow-up, referrals or other support information.

It seems to me that importance was given to protocol. And then we get into what we may consider a conflict of church-state. Is that part of your testimony?

COMPTROLLER NANCY WYMAN: No, Representative, it is not. If to me you're, and I am sure the numbers that you have in front of you are accurate, then I guess nobody would be fighting this procedure and giving out the contraceptive.

REP. THOMPSON: That's what I think, too.

COMPTROLLER NANCY WYMAN: Excuse me?

REP. THOMPSON: That's what I think, too.

COMPTROLLER NANCY WYMAN: I would think if they were doing this, why would they fight the bill? And there is a fight against the bill right now.

To be honest with you, I can only listen to the people that are there all the time with the victims and how the counselors have said that they have seen and been at Catholic hospitals that the pill has not been given to them.

And I'm not going to dispute your numbers Representative, but you do a great job on looking back on the information and stuff, but what I do want to make sure is that the women that are victims have the opportunity and the knowledge of what they can and cannot do at a time right after a terrible incident.

We just heard about one of, and I'm sure she will be here later, of a colleague of yours who went through something terrible. And--

REP. THOMPSON: In a Catholic hospital?

COMPTROLLER NANCY WYMAN: I'm sorry?

REP. THOMPSON: In a Catholic hospital?

COMPTROLLER NANCY WYMAN: No, just talking about being a rape victim, and being a rape victim at the time that you go to the hospital. What you feel like, what happens to that woman.

That's why I say to you that it is so important to get these people to be survivors and not just victims any more. That we have to help them go through and let them have the information they need.

If they choose not to take Plan B, then that's their choice, but at least to have them have the opportunity and knowledge about it and have it available and not to go to having to be told to go some place right after their bodies might have been mutilated in many ways and their minds destroyed.

REP. THOMPSON: What I am suggesting, Nancy, is that when I heard information such as you just revealed, yes, of course, we are very sympathetic.

And there's no question about the, and I just couldn't imagine healthcare providers being less than compassionate to the victim of a rape, and I even had the thought that supposing, you know, a young woman comes in that has been beaten and asks for the, I cannot imagine anyone not being compassionate and doing something about it.

I think the question though is the hospitals are willing to provide that pill except as you mention in the question of the ovulation, and I think there's a medical doctor who will later testify in support of the Bill, will go through that.

But it seemed to me that the issues that divide us are rather small. The issues that bring us together, not only for victims of rape but victims of poverty and victims of a lot of other injustices in our society, have much more in common than they do.

To have something like this, to single out a religious institution and not give them a greater, a greater opportunity to explain their position just seems to me to be wasting our time. And I would hope that they would come together and you might help us to bring those two sides together.

COMPTROLLER NANCY WYMAN: And, I will tell you Representative Thompson this was not against the Catholic hospitals as far as I have seen it.

I mean, as far as my opinion is, because they do a great job in our state. They service a lot of our people and do a great job at the hospital.

I think if you listened to my testimony, it wasn't the religious aspect of this thing because we went after Wal-Mart. And, we came up with an agreement with some Wal-Marts.

They sat down with us. It didn't have to be a lawsuit or anything else. We sat down and discussed it, and they did have people that objected to giving out the pill so they worked out a program that they would have somebody available so that the person that comes to the counter gets the pill that they need.

I think we should be able to work things out. I would hope that we can. You know, I always think that less legislation is better legislation if we can work the problem out. If we're not working the problem out, then I think we have to work to help these victims out.

REP. THOMPSON: Thank you. And just for future speakers, if anyone has any information about a person that has been denied the pill at any hospital, I for one would like to know the hospital that refused the pill and the reason for giving it.

COMPTROLLER NANCY WYMAN: I think there are people coming after me that will be able to do that.

REP. THOMPSON: Thank you.

REP. VILLANO: Thank you, Representative Thompson. Are there any questions or comments of Controller Wyman? Representative Morris?

REP. MORRIS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just want to make sure I'm clear with my understanding. You're fine with this as long as you know that the victim has been given knowledge of their options and a mechanism is somehow in place that will allow that person to receive the pill. And I'm really hearing this towards the Catholic hospitals.

COMPTROLLER NANCY WYMAN: Representative Morris, my belief is that if a sexually assaulted woman comes into any hospital and that is told about the emergency contraceptive, that if she chooses that she would like to have a contraceptive today, that it should be handed to her.

Not put in a cab and sent miles away because that's not what we do. You don't do that for aspirins. You don't do that for a painkiller. And, these people are hurting. You know, what, this incident happened for this victim. She didn't ask for it.

She didn't want to be there, and you better give her every opportunity to take care of herself afterwards since this happened, since she became a victim.

REP. MORRIS: Good. On that point, every opportunity. Okay. And I'm clear with you. I have heard the arguments about going to another hospital or things like that and certainly for a victim of this horrendous, horrendous crime, this violation on a woman.

I think everyone in this room is on the page that we need to make certain that we are providing relief and certainly the options to make a choice to take the pill or not. So, at least we know our positions on that.

I'm just trying to be clear when you say providing opportunities if there were, and I'm kind of following upon Representative Thompson, if the option was one that if it were a Catholic hospital that for whatever religious reasons they didn't want to be dispensing, but where a sexual assault crisis counselor or someone like that would be something that would make sense to you and be favorable?

COMPTROLLER NANCY WYMAN: If you can find someone that is not a conscientious objector, that would come to that woman and dispense it immediately, because we have a time period here that the medication has to be delivered to the woman and that both pills would be given at the same time, so that she takes the one right away and then the other one within, I think it's within 12 hours, that if it is a seamless process where, for the victim, I have no problem with that.

REP. MORRIS: That would be a reasonable solution?

COMPTROLLER NANCY WYMAN: Absolutely, have somebody come in and give her the pill. As long she's given the pill. You're not moving the patient.

You're not taking the victim and making, giving her more problems than she already had, and it is seamless to the victim, then I don't see a problem with it as long as it is being disbursed and with the knowledge that she chose to have the pill.

REP. MORRIS: If, because the seamless piece may be where the challenge is to some degree, and I may want to hear a little more testimony on this.

Maybe that's what I'll do, but maybe people that are coming could consider that, because I agree with Representative Thompson.

Statistically, when you take a look at the numbers of who may be affected here and if the other side of the story is that some people are feeling that we need to protect state institutions and conscientious reasons, how can we today in this hearing may come up with some solutions, some ways to address the needs of all of us that really want to provide for relief of the victim but then at the same time recognize, recognize that we need also to protect state institutions. Thank you. So I'll hold that and ask other people to think of those things. We'll talk out loud.

COMPTROLLER NANCY WYMAN: Okay. Thank you.

REP. VILLANO: Are there any more questions or comments from Committee Members? All right. Yes, Representative Truglia.

REP. TRUGLIA: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Good afternoon. Nancy, you mentioned when you were dealing with Wal-Mart that the answer would be that if they weren't going to do what you asked that you would take state funding away from any programs that they were involved with.

Now, how would we do that with our Catholic hospitals? They provide so much of the Medicaid population.

COMPTROLLER NANCY WYMAN: Absolutely.

REP. TRUGLIA: In fact, I know in Stamford, St. Joseph's Hospital had to close because they were providing for so many patients, who are Medicaid.

Now, I wouldn't want this to happen to the four hospitals that are left. I mean how are we going to punish them? What are we going to do if they feel because of their religious beliefs that they are not able to do this?

I know I spoke to someone at Saint Vincent's because I was curious, too, you know, how many individuals. They said they have never had one complaint.

That they immediately call in their sexual assault counselor and they work together. And, they really treat everyone with compassionate care.

That's what I have always thought about Catholic hospitals. One of the reasons Catholic hospitals were started was because they wanted to provide compassionate and caring care for their patients.

So I worry about what if we pass legislation that if they do not provide, what punishment are we going to give them other than to take away Medicaid patients or patients that the state pays for? I mean, right now, they are so under-funded as it is because certainly you take care of a patient, the state does not reimburse them what it costs.

COMPTROLLER NANCY WYMAN: You are absolutely right.

REP. TRUGLIA: You know, it just, I'm trying to figure out how we're going to work this.

COMPTROLLER NANCY WYMAN: I think that, I think that as Representative Morris said and even Representative Thompson said there is some way of getting together on this. This is not, for us, it was different when it came to Wal-Mart.

Because of the state healthcare plan, we had to have everybody in the plan and they had to have everything available. Otherwise, the negotiations that went on with the state and the union were put out in the form of a settlement.

That everything had to be available to them. And when Wal-Mart was going to pull out, I didn't have much of an option but to say that we were going to pull out.

REP. TRUGLIA: I can understand that.

COMPTROLLER NANCY WYMAN: I'm really hoping that we are able to get some kind of a settlement so that not only, it's not only the Catholic hospitals, it's other places that we want to make sure that people provide that if you go some place.

This is not me attacking the Catholic hospitals by any means because as I said to you earlier, I truly believe they have done a great job in this state, in this country, to helping people out.

But on this issue, this issue, and the women that are affected by this issue has to be taken care of. And I believe that you can sit down and talk about it, but there's got to be a way that we address the problem that is in front of us right now.

REP. TRUGLIA: Well, one of my concerns is that what kind of rules are we going to have for these hospitals? And my problem is when I checked the uncompensated care that St. Vincent's is number four in the state for uncompensated care.

They take care of so many of the people who can't afford to pay. And you know, and state clients, who do not fund, like I said before, the cost.

COMPTROLLER NANCY WYMAN: Right, they don't.

REP. TRUGLIA: So it's a real, real problem that we're facing here because the Catholic hospitals, they have the belief that, you know, they think the government shouldn't--

COMPTROLLER NANCY WYMAN: And I think that, there's one of the suggestions, and I think Representative Morris is right, that if we can work out something that this is dispensed in a seamless way of maybe through your rape counselors coming in and dispensing it, that just as long as the victim is taken care of. And I think that's where we'll all gain. We have to take care of the victims of rape.

REP. TRUGLIA: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

REP. VILLANO: Are there any other questions? Representative Bartlett.

REP. BARTLETT: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Nancy, for coming today. Are there not other states that have enacted legislation like this?

COMPTROLLER NANCY WYMAN: In fact there are, and the Attorney General has a list of them. There's like, I think he named off six or seven states that have put this legislation in and that have all the Catholic hospitals that do give Plan B.

REP. BARTLETT: So none of the hospitals after the state passed the legislation, none of the hospitals shut their doors, locked up and said we're not doing business, that wasn't the outcome was it?

COMPTROLLER NANCY WYMAN: That's the testimony of the Attorney General.

REP. BARTLETT: Thank you very much.

REP. VILLANO: Representative Morris.

REP. MORRIS: One last question. In your order of priorities of things in life, in law, where does discrimination against people of faith or institutions of faith rate?

COMPTROLLER NANCY WYMAN: I hate all forms of discrimination, and it would probably be my number one issue if you want to look at it.

But when you also look at discrimination, you also have to look at not only religious discrimination. We talk about racial, we talk about women, and a victim of rape can and is normally discriminated against, and we don't want that any more.

REP. MORRIS: And a very good point. And gender discrimination, where does that rate?

COMPTROLLER NANCY WYMAN: I don't like any kind. I think discrimination should be number one that we should consider.

REP. MORRIS: And would you agree then that each of these classes deserve equal protection under the law?

COMPTROLLER NANCY WYMAN: Yes, I do, and I have no problem with that. Absolutely.

REP. MORRIS: Thank you.

REP. VILLANO: Thank you very much, Nancy.

COMPTROLLER NANCY WYMAN: Thank you very much.

REP. VILLANO: Our next speaker is Speaker of the House James Amann. It's crowded, huh.

SPEAKER AMANN: Senator Harris, Representative Villano, we should have gotten a bigger room. This is quite a showing, and obviously you have some heavy issues as usual.

I am joined here by Lois Rosenwald, who is right next me, who I consider one of the experts on autism. I'm sure there are a lot of experts in this room on this issue especially, of course, many of the parents.

So I appreciate again having an opportunity to talk to you. And I come before you today to express the strong support for House Bill 7280, AN ACT CONCERNING AUTISM.

Last year I was, you know, I guess I was lucky enough to meet a group of parents in Milford, and I was quite taken by their testimony about their children.

I told them straight out that there's many issues in my 20, now going on 25 years, 17 up here, and eight home as a local, many issues that I have taken on. And autism though was one of those that you heard about a lot, but quite frankly, I didn't know anything about.

And I was quite frank with them. I said please educate me. I don't know about it. And what can I do to help. So I give all honor to the parents, certainly Lois, and of course the children and the young adults themselves who are getting me involved in this issue.

So, yeah, I supported it, but this Legislature stepped up to the plate last year, and I think really did a great job by championing a groundbreaking, two-year pilot program to provide needed services to 25 individuals with autism spectrum disorders in the New Haven County area. Today the pilot program has been extremely successful.

I would like to thank again all of you here, many of the advocates and parents that played a part in this passage, especially State Representative Cathy Abercrombie, of course, Senator Judy Freedman, who is not here in this particular roundtable, the one that also was one that got in my ear and told me why I should do it.

Again, I thank the parents. You know, I don't know how they do it. I know we're busy up here, but the parents that just work tirelessly for the well being of their children.

Autism spectrum disorders, as you know, are a group of developmental disabilities caused by unusual brain development. People with ASD tend to have problems with social and communication skills. ASDs begin during childhood and last throughout a person's life.

I was really, really. Timing's everything, right? Right here, Gary Turco, my staff, brought this up from I believe it's the Hartford Courant.

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Yes.

SPEAKER AMANN: I hope they know I give them a little plug here today. Not for all their articles today, but this one I will, but what a great article. Okay.

As a family, we embrace autism but autism does not go away when you turn 21, and I think it's just a great promotion and it's just great to see that and the timing was spectacular.

The latest Center for Disease Control study estimates that 1 in 150 newborn babies have an autism spectrum disorder. Autism is currently the fastest-growing developmental disability.

In the 1990s, the United States population increase was 13%, disabilities as a whole increased by 16%, autism had an increase of 172%.

Those statistics are alarming so we need, as a Legislature, to continue the good work that we started last year. Autism spectrum disorders occur in all racial, ethnic, socioeconomic groups. It does not discriminate.

Presently there is no known single cause of autism. Studies are underway to explore different explanations for the various types of autism.

Recently Senator Christopher Dodd helped to obtain federal money to research a cure. And I was so proud of him for doing that.

One of the most challenging times for individuals with autism and their families is when they transition from the security of federally mandated services in the public schools to the uncertainty of adult services.

And that's where we stepped in and that's where House Bill 7280 is targeted to help the adult population. Adult spectrum disorders are life-long conditions, yet adults with autism in Connecticut we see very few services, in fact, embarrassingly very few services.

So entitlement to services, people with autism ends at the age of 21 in Connecticut unless the person also has mental retardation.

A large parentage of people with autism do not have mental retardation and therefore are left with no or very few services, but most of the time, there aren't any.

This bill, again, would require that the Commissioner of Social Services in consultation with the Commissioner of Mental Retardation take all necessary steps such as applying for Medicaid waivers to secure federal funding to provide home and community-based support services to adults with autism spectrum disorders, who do not have mental retardation.

This bill also ensures that a long-time, long-term funding of services for these individuals and the federal dollars to do so. And funding for services for these adults would allow them to live independent lives, which is so important.

By providing, by doing this, by providing post-secondary education, vocational training, supported employment, and other services they will be active and contributing members to the community. And isn't that what we want? That's our goal.

It is my hope that we will be able to appropriate funding in this year's biennium budget to start providing these services while DSS and DMR are applying and obtaining the federal funds.

I will look to all of your leadership on this Committee, Democrats and Republicans, and make sure that we, together, can appropriate and go forward and get this to be feasible for the state in passing this year's legislation.

So thank you for your time, Mr. Chairman, and consideration. At this point, would you mind if I had Lois, who has a lot more expertise, knowledge, etc. than I have to take the floor?

REP. VILLANO: We welcome her remarks.

SPEAKER AMANN: Just your name for the record, again.

LOIS ROSENWALD: Thank you, Speaker. My name is Lois Rosenwald. Senator Harris, Representative Villano and Members of the Human Services Committee, and especially Representative Abercrombie, good afternoon. I would like to thank you for the opportunity to talk on this most important issue.

My name is Lois Rosenwald, and I am here today wearing two hats. I am first and foremost the mother of a 30-year-old, who is an incredible human being, who happens to have Asperger's syndrome, a form of autism.

Secondly, I'm here as Co-Director of the Connecticut Autism Spectrum Resource Center, a grassroots, family-driven center. We have been actively advocating for over ten years to put in place services for adults with autism spectrum disorders without mental retardation.

Since I only have three minutes to speak, I'm going to choose the role of advocate, and speak to the reason why this bill needs to pass this session and not next session.

If, indeed, a Medicaid waiver is the way to go for our population, then we need to start that process as soon as possible. It takes over a year to apply for a waiver.

I have been told it is a long, arduous process. For this reason, we are recommending an outside consultant do the work.

By the time an okay is given and services are up and running, it will most likely take two years. If this bill passes this session, and they start work in July and finish by June 2008, we will be lucky to see services in place by January 2009.

This scenario depends on everything going well, and I think we all know about that. The pilot finishes in 2008. We don't have any more time to waste.

We really don't. Without the support that a waiver could provide, many of our ASD adults are on public assistance. With the appropriate services, many could be taxpayers.

I can't stress enough how severe the crisis is we are in. We needed services yesterday. Over the ten years I have been advocating for ASD adult services, we have seen the incidence of autism spectrum disorders go from three in 1,000 to the CDC's most recent number of one in 150.

This is a crisis, a serous health concern, and one that responsible government can no longer ignore. These are real people, with real families that need your help. Please do the right thing and pass this bill this Session. Thank you.

REP. VILLANO: Thank you Ms. Rosenwald--

LOIS ROSENWALD: --can I just take the opportunity to thank the Speaker? I really have to thank Jim Amann for his help. I mean, this is an issue. I've been up here for a long time. Many of you know.

You've heard me many times and spoken to me, and until he was willing to take this on, we really moved along very slowly on this issue. He has been amazing, and I really, really want to take this opportunity publicly to thank him. Thank you.

REP. VILLANO: And thank you very much. Now before both of you leave, are there any questions from Committee Members of either speaker, Mr. Amann or Ms. Rosenwald? Vice Chair Abercrombie.

REP. ABERCROMBIE: I too would like to just thank you, Mr. Speaker, for your leadership on this issue. Before I became a legislator, I was involved in Meriden with a few families for autism.

And for me when I came up here, this was something that became personal for me. And thank you so much for putting a name to a face on this issue.

I don't think there's anyone in this room that doesn't know a family that has, doesn't have autism today. And the numbers are just unbelievable and on the rise.

So I look forward to working with you, Mr. Speaker, in the future to add more services not only to our adults with autism but also to start doing something to our birth to three children also.

And to you, Lois, thank you so much for always being there to answer questions when we needed it. I really enjoyed the walk for last year, and if I am invited back this year, I will truly be there, so thank you very much for all your hard work. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

REP. VILLANO: Any other comments from Committee Members? Representative Gibbons.

REP. GIBBONS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, once again for coming before our Committee, and thank you, Lois, for being here. I've dealt with this issue for the seven years now that I've been on this Committee.

I see many parents, who have come back. It is certainly a crisis in Connecticut. I'd like to say that we all have equal votes, but I think you, Mr. Speaker, have a little more equal vote if you could be sure to get the money into our budget.

And just in case I can't support the budget, would you please put it in the Implementer so that I can support it there?

And I think we need far more money than just for 25 in a pilot program. We have hundreds of parents and adults over 21 who need these services, so let's get going and do it. Thank you both. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

REP. VILLANO: Representative Schofield. I'm sorry.

REP. SCHOFIELD: It's one of those complicated names. Thank you very much, and I really appreciate your testimony also. I think Representative Abercrombie is absolutely right in saying probably all of us know families with autism.

The need goes far beyond the 25 in the pilot program, and while it is an expense per se, I see it totally as an investment because the services you provide to kids with autism, the earlier they get them, the more functional they become and it just saves you money down the road.

To me there's nothing more important than preventing those greater expenses for these people as they grow up. I did have a quick question. Is the pilot, as it is now constructed, only for people under 21 or does it include adults as well?